RomRaider

There is no reliable way to determine transmission loss indirectly.
From the other hand car acceleration is wheel power dependent and completely determines car behavior.

My opinion there is no considerable reason to try estimate flywheel power.

There is, with an error about less than 5%, if you look careully at every parameter like uphill/downhill, temperatur actual weight, wind, wheels etc...
If you "trust" dyno reports, you can also do this on the road...

Behavior yes, but looking at the RomRaider editor function,you are chancing initiacial torque for advancing the "power".
You can only check your chances correctly, if you got flywheel power to compare it with ECUs torque model. Everthing else is "seartching in the dark", but not correct application examination.


Not correct..
Ask for the reason, why engine power and torque is reported on flywheel power and not wheel oder initial..
And ask, why OEM test on stational test stands..
And ask, why internal torque models of ECUs work on initial and flywheel torque and not wheel..

To be able to check you application, you realy need flywheel power, so "we" need to get it as corretly as we can without haveing a stational test stand.

There are way to get it in range of less then 5% error, same eorror as dyno will calculate it.
And most trust in dyno runs.

Regrads

bwt:

flywheel power calculation is just a add-on to wheel power measuring...

So, to keep everyone contently, you can activate fly-wheel-power-calculating as a add on to the measured wheel-power measuring, witch allready exsists.

Results of a roll-out test, can be consider off-line from stored vehicle invidual data..

Roll out tests measure completely another losses than exist under acceleration. Think it over.
I am not against of direct engine load testing. But they are not easily available for home done tuning.

For those who likes promising net engine power numbers may still apply (overrated in my mind) 22% transmission loss as usually reported.
I doubt those estimations (probably being within reported 5% accuracy) are correct for any RPM\torque\transmission make\model combinations.

As opposite road dyno (and wheel dyno) tests are feasible and traceable and are able to provide the true car features applicable for comparison.

Comming back to this point and suggest:


Not realy, because this is the "normal" way to measure loose of the hole transmission.
It is just a "take off" acceleration to the fly-wheel-accelration..

So with a roll-out measuring you will be same accuracy then a dyno at the tuner.



To become a compromiss, everyone can work with:

calculating fly-wheel-power needs on offline prozess, because you need acceleration measurend and roll-out-test.

So maybe there can be a option to read roll-out data and add the calculated negativ accelation to the measured.
So wheel power will be transformed to flywheel power...

If there is no roll-out-data, you only will have wheel power like now..



Tranmission loose is not a linar function. It depens on transmission speed..



But just remember:
dyno a the tuner will measure exactly the same data, we do on the Road Dyno..
If you run you full pull two times with opposite directions and middel the resuals, you are as accurate as a dyno two..

Calcution is the same, but Road Dyno is a lot cheaper..

I tried the Road Dyno yesterday and didn`t get a plot.

I cleared all parameters from the other tabs to get the best sampling I could, put in my weight (my car was already the first in the car_defs), select the Dyno in the Dyno/ET checkbox, pressed the Start button, started driving and went WOT.

When I looked after I stopped, the RPM fields in the re-calculate area where 0/0.

I enabled the verbose debugging mode... it looks like it wasn`t being able to get the RPM... this is the relevant portions in the log:

0 INFO [main] - RomRaider 0.5.4 Beta RC1 Build: 370
<snip>
2109 INFO [main] - Domingo, 15 de Julho de 2012 7h37min56s BRT
<snip>
16312 INFO [main] - DYNO New Car Selected: 08 SADM FXT 4AT, Gears: 4
16328 INFO [main] - DYNO Car: 08 SADM FXT 4AT, Changed gear to: 2 (1.545)
<snip>
33562 INFO [AWT-EventQueue-0] - Loading logger config for new ECU ID: 4EA2504007, loaded 113 parameters, 68 switches.
<snip>
149515 INFO [AWT-EventQueue-0] - DYNO Measurement units selected: Metric
<snip>
567422 INFO [Thread-100691] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241453 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 5.882352941176471 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567469 INFO [Thread-100699] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241500 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 5.882352941176471 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567500 INFO [Thread-100707] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241531 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 6.666666666666667 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567547 INFO [Thread-100715] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241578 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 16.07843137254902 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567594 INFO [Thread-100723] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241625 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 55.68627450980392 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567625 INFO [Thread-100731] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241656 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 92.15686274509804 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567672 INFO [Thread-100739] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241703 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567672 INFO [Thread-100739] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241703 [VS:P9]: 0.0 valid: false
567719 INFO [Thread-100747] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241750 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567719 INFO [Thread-100747] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241750 [VS:P9]: 0.0 valid: false
567750 INFO [Thread-100755] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241781 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567750 INFO [Thread-100755] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241781 [VS:P9]: 0.0 valid: false
567797 INFO [Thread-100763] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241828 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567797 INFO [Thread-100763] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241828 [VS:P9]: 0.0 valid: false
567844 INFO [Thread-100771] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241875 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567844 INFO [Thread-100771] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241875 [VS:P9]: 0.0 valid: false
567875 INFO [Thread-100779] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241906 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567875 INFO [Thread-100779] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241906 [VS:P9]: 0.0 valid: false
567922 INFO [Thread-100787] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241953 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567922 INFO [Thread-100787] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349241953 [VS:P9]: 0.0 valid: false
567969 INFO [Thread-100795] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349242000 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 0.0
567969 INFO [Thread-100795] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349242000 [VS:P9]: 0.0 valid: false
568000 INFO [Thread-100803] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349242031 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 0.0
568000 INFO [Thread-100803] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349242031 [VS:P9]: 0.0 valid: false
568047 INFO [Thread-100811] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349242078 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 1.0
568047 INFO [Thread-100811] - ET Distance (ft): 0.06893333333333332
568047 INFO [Thread-100811] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349242078 [VS:P9]: 1.0 valid: true
568094 INFO [Thread-100819] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349242125 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 1.0
568094 INFO [Thread-100819] - ET Distance (ft): 0.13786666666666664
568094 INFO [Thread-100819] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349242125 [VS:P9]: 1.0 valid: true
568125 INFO [Thread-100827] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349242156 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 1.0
568125 INFO [Thread-100827] - ET Distance (ft): 0.1833333333333333
568125 INFO [Thread-100827] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349242156 [VS:P9]: 1.0 valid: true
568172 INFO [Thread-100835] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349242203 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 1.0
568172 INFO [Thread-100835] - ET Distance (ft): 0.25226666666666664
<snip>
575906 INFO [Thread-102307] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349249937 [VS:P9]: 91.0 valid: true
575953 INFO [Thread-102315] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349249984 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 91.0
575953 INFO [Thread-102315] - ET Distance (ft): 546.4477333333332
575953 INFO [Thread-102315] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349249984 [VS:P9]: 91.0 valid: true
575984 INFO [Thread-102323] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349250015 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 100.0 [VS:P9]: 91.0
575984 INFO [Thread-102323] - ET Distance (ft): 550.5851999999999
575984 INFO [Thread-102323] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349250015 [VS:P9]: 91.0 valid: true
576031 INFO [Thread-102331] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349250062 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 90.98039215686275 [VS:P9]: 91.0
617578 INFO [Thread-110091] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349291609 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 5.882352941176471 [VS:P9]: 0.0
617625 INFO [Thread-110099] - DYNO Sample: [Time]: 1342349291656 [RPM:calc]: 0.0 [TA:P13]: 5.882352941176471 [VS:P9]: 0.0

Responded to your other post.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8606

Hello there,
Some topic dig out there, but I'd like to know something about the WOT detection of the RR dyno.

I do own a e36, and its tps is at 79% when on WOT throttle. it never goes over that.
In my case, the rr dyno does not detect the beginning of the "pull". I am wondering how the dyno is detecting WOT and if its tunable to suit my car.

Regards

At this time it's not tunable. It expects to see a value for Throttle Position (P13) >98%.
You can adjust the conversion formula in the Logger definition for P13 to calculate a value at WOT over 98%.

So, I've been able to get the TPS to show 101 at WOT.

Now still I have not been able to get any data show by the dyno.


At this stage, when I do click 'record data' the elevation box can be yet modified, then I proceed to go WOT, the RR dyno does detect that I go WOT, and show as per the screenshot the rpm band I have been running WOT. But apart from that nothing else is showing; the graph always stood blank.

my cars_def has been modified to suit my car and placed in the folder of logger def file.


have I been doing something wrong?

The image shows you are not connected to the DME.
Start by making sure you can log some parameters, then switch to the Dyno tab.
Start off at low RPM in the gear you are testing with, press Record Data (the screen will change) and then go WOT.

this was maybe a bad example, I can logg without any issue. when I press reccord data I dont have much changing on the screen apart from the elevation not being blanked

The screen should change to this:If all else fails, send your rr_system.log file.

okay, so here is a crap video I did. Sorry for the bad crop.
https://youtu.be/1wRRGFeN2J4
In this video we can see that the logger properly works, we can see that WOT detects 100% tps at 1:03 and a partial pull at 3:05 that registered only a small rpm band. I already did a full pull and it behaved the same, namely only showed the rpm band of 1500-6700, but graph stayed blanked.

Please find attached the rr_system.

Thank you for your time.

In the entire log I only see two times where the Throttle went above 98%.

You could load these from file to see how it graphs.