ID injector low pulse width data

sti04 · **Joined:** Tue May 13, 2008 3:03 am **Posts:** 27

this is the problem, find the data!
I found nothing for Denso 1400cc ....

mikeis300 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:03 am **Posts:** 82

could you make one for the dw1500 (Bosch EV14 1500cc)?
http://www.deatschwerks.com/images/stories/injector_tech/Injector_Characterization/16m-1500cc.pdf

mikeis300 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:03 am **Posts:** 82

is there a spreadsheet i could use to figure out the low pulse width compensations?

smennie · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:10 am **Posts:** 209

Not that I am aware of.
Unless the manufacturer publishes the data you're pretty much left with the option of determining the low pulse width data experimentally on a flow bench. This is what I did for my de-capped wrx injectors.

mikeis300 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:03 am **Posts:** 82

What kind of information regarding the injectors would you need?

smennie · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:10 am **Posts:** 209

mikeis300 wrote:

What kind of information regarding the injectors would you need?

Have a look at the OP for the sort of data you're looking for. My question for you is, what are you hoping to archieve from having this data?

mikeis300 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:03 am **Posts:** 82

I'm hoping with this data i can dial in my idle and low pulse width. I'm at 12:1 having difficulties with lowering the pulse width under 0.792ms

any help is much appreciated

mikeis300 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:03 am **Posts:** 82

Concillian wrote:

Estimate latency at 13.5v (voltage used for test) by plotting out 8v --> 16v latency @ 3 bar, curve fit and interpolate.
Subtract latency from DW data. This becomes the new zero.

Then I plot that
Then I create 18 cells that are in the Carberry ROM. The lower % cells I put in just about all the breakpoints (which are every 0.78%), then the upper % cells can skip some based on the curve. Then change around latency for each cell so the overall error in fueling is minimized from an "eyeball average" of the DW data. Basically getting the red line (Carberry table data) overlaid on the DW data (blue) to match closely.

can you look over these numbers and see if I'm close?

i wont have a chance to try these my self till the weekend

Attachment:

tables.png [ 613.39 KiB | Viewed 11828 times ]

mikeis300 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:03 am **Posts:** 82

Haven't had a chance to do much testing but it starts with ease and idles at 19-20:1. Going to need to fix those areas of the ve map, but seems to be close to the numbers needed

Before 12:1 was as lean as I could get the injectors at idle

mikeis300 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:03 am **Posts:** 82

Nvm after some testing today there wasn't much improvement. A little smoother in the ve map in low loads after some tuning. Idle is still hanging around 11.9/1.
Any thoughts?

.

Gatekeeper · **Joined:** Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:49 am **Posts:** 44

Thanks Concillian for the posts. I have just installed the ID1300's on the car with the values you provided and they work well

Just one thing that I noticed though, as soon as I get off the gas the car seems to stutter and i notice the AFR's jump between 19 and 14 so it seems as though the car is fueling when it should actually be cutting fuel. Not sure whether this has anything to do with the low pulsewidth compensation table? This is the latency table that I used (extrapolated data from ID to get the lower values).

Code:

[Table2D]
6.5   9.0   11.5   14.0   16.5
3.008   1.86   1.264   0.924   0.716

My minimum pulsewidth is 0.42 ms and maximum base pulsewidth is 3ms. Do you guys have any ideas as to what could be causing this? I will flash a new map with low pulsewidth compensation disabled to see if that makes a difference.

Concillian · **Joined:** Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:13 pm **Posts:** 103

mikeis300 wrote:

Concillian wrote:

Estimate latency at 13.5v (voltage used for test) by plotting out 8v --> 16v latency @ 3 bar, curve fit and interpolate.
Subtract latency from DW data. This becomes the new zero.

Then I plot that
Then I create 18 cells that are in the Carberry ROM. The lower % cells I put in just about all the breakpoints (which are every 0.78%), then the upper % cells can skip some based on the curve. Then change around latency for each cell so the overall error in fueling is minimized from an "eyeball average" of the DW data. Basically getting the red line (Carberry table data) overlaid on the DW data (blue) to match closely.

can you look over these numbers and see if I'm close?

i wont have a chance to try these my self till the weekend

There is a discrepancy between the Deatsch latency and flow data, but that's not the main issue here.

The Deatsch flow 1.1 cell data should be applied to ~0.3ms / 14v cell in the Carberry table (because latency is 0.8 and 0.8 + 0.3 = 1.1).

The other issue you have is that your deviations are the opposite sign. When the mass flow deviation in the flow chart is a positive percent, your compensation needs to be negative, because the injector is giving too much fuel and you need to reduce it.

mikeis300 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:03 am **Posts:** 82

Concillian wrote:

There is a discrepancy between the Deatsch latency and flow data, but that's not the main issue here.

The Deatsch flow 1.1 cell data should be applied to ~0.3ms / 14v cell in the Carberry table (because latency is 0.8 and 0.8 + 0.3 = 1.1).

The other issue you have is that your deviations are the opposite sign. When the mass flow deviation in the flow chart is a positive percent, your compensation needs to be negative, because the injector is giving too much fuel and you need to reduce it.

that makes sense. here's where im at now. still off, alomost there. slight oscillation when holding an rmp. that seems to be affected by the volts.

Attachment:

table.png [ 272.52 KiB | Viewed 11828 times ]

Dr Waffles · **Joined:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:42 am **Posts:** 252

How would these compensation values change as base fuel pressure changes?
I've gone up from the factory 43.5psi to 50 (And soon to be 55-60psi) base pressure to allow my ID1000's to flow enough.

Dr Waffles · **Joined:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:42 am **Posts:** 252

Just quickly, If the minimum pulse width is lets say .350 ms.. Why start the compensation table so early (.124) and waste 4ish columns?
Wouldn't they be better used to add resolution past 1ms?

RomRaider

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