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 Post subject: MS40
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:26 pm
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I have 2 E36es. One with MS41.1 and one m50b20 with the not so known MS40.1.
The maps I modify to run with bigger injectors and some boost is the same.

Yesterday I combined my bin with the MAF-table from an Alpina B3 (3.5 inch Maf the same I'm running) and then fixed the fuelmap so i had good AFRs on boost and a stable Idle AFR (14.7).
I run no lambdas to the ECU so it's running only from the ECU's Maps. My problem comes to the colder climate.
I can't start the car in the morning. I run E85 and it's a bitch sometimes. I guess finding the cold start map/maps would help a lot.

Is there any information about this? Like what is infront of the map like RPM axis / temp axis so I can find it. (I know the MS ecus have just pointers to the actual axis but yeah what would it be? rpm + temp axis?)
I will add my current BIN from my MS40.1 if someone wants to take a look.


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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
Yeah there should be some cranking tables that reference coolant temp and maybe a separate one for RPM vs TPS or some combination of the two etc. There is probably some info on how this is done in the 'Siemens Calibration' documents I have attached in the past. There is an entire pdf file dedicated to 'injection' and I believe I saw cranking logic in there and what sort of maps are defined for it. Then we would just have to find them.

_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:26 pm
Posts: 22
From my experience the global fuel map is affecting cold starting too. Also the MAF table. I have never logged just many reflashes until I get a good running idle and at load.
But for example after using Alpina B3 3.5 Inch MAF-table + a new fuelmap I have it harder to start the car when it's cold.
It was much easier with the stock MAF-table (my stock one is a 2.75 inch) and a really crazy looking fuel map. It ran good and was easy to start.
Right now I don't know if it gets too little or too much fuel. It can fire and die or not fire at all. Just cranking for ever.

So whats the probable that I get too much fuel when using the 3.5 maf-table? Cause the base fuel map has higher values at those load points I guess idling/pre starting would be. This was needed when I changed the MAF-table.


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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:44 am
Posts: 73
Location: Portland, Or.
torbj796 wrote:
From my experience the global fuel map is affecting cold starting too. Also the MAF table. I have never logged just many reflashes until I get a good running idle and at load.
But for example after using Alpina B3 3.5 Inch MAF-table + a new fuelmap I have it harder to start the car when it's cold.
It was much easier with the stock MAF-table (my stock one is a 2.75 inch) and a really crazy looking fuel map. It ran good and was easy to start.
Right now I don't know if it gets too little or too much fuel. It can fire and die or not fire at all. Just cranking for ever.

So whats the probable that I get too much fuel when using the 3.5 maf-table? Cause the base fuel map has higher values at those load points I guess idling/pre starting would be. This was needed when I changed the MAF-table.


Can you take a datalog of before and after your big maf setup? You said it runs fine with big injectors and small maf but hard to start with big maf and big injectors. It would help to see the injector pulse that you are getting. My car starts easily with a 16ms pulse all the way up to a 32ms pulse. I could see this not being the case with bigger injectors.

There is another user who was having problems starting with much bigger injectors, that is probably due to dead times.

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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:30 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:26 pm
Posts: 22
I've tried getting Testo to work. But the OBD1/II cable I got on ebay don't seem to work with my MS40.1 ECU. API-0006 error and I've tried everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:44 am
Posts: 73
Location: Portland, Or.
Does that cable allow you to flash? If it does then you've got something going on in the comm settings, probably the port. INPA likes the cable to be on com 1 and you can force it into that spot in the device manager.

If the cable does not allow you to flash then you need a different cable.

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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:26 pm
Posts: 22
I think it's a problem with the ECU people say older ECUs might need ADS instead. And I don't have that cable.
I guess my cable works on the MS41.1 Ecu without problems. (I have a MS40.1, I bought eeproms for this ECU and have to remove it and flash everytime, where with my MS41.1 I could flash over USB with my KWP2000+.)
And it's not Port settings because I tried everything and I think I read all the threads I could find about that.


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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
I just realized you're asking about MS40. This forum is for MS41...

What are the differences between the two?

_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
torbj796 wrote:
I think it's a problem with the ECU people say older ECUs might need ADS instead. And I don't have that cable.
I guess my cable works on the MS41.1 Ecu without problems. (I have a MS40.1, I bought eeproms for this ECU and have to remove it and flash everytime, where with my MS41.1 I could flash over USB with my KWP2000+.)
And it's not Port settings because I tried everything and I think I read all the threads I could find about that.

How are you modifying the tables in your MS40? Can you post the definitions file you are using so I can open your file?

I also noticed the bin you attached is 64KB and is probably the entire ECU for your MS40.

_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:26 pm
Posts: 22
Sure you can have my XDF I've added a suspected cold start map. Only one I found that looks like one.
I use wols for maps, and TunerPro software to edit.


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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:26 pm
Posts: 22
I just got home today being abroad. My car didn't start like usual. I removed the engine temp sensor connector and got it running.
I don't know but that points to too much fuel when cold cranking? It smells alot from the exhaust. Even after removing the sensor and finally started the car,
my wideband reads 10.0. :) So my tune is really s*** I guess.
When the car is warm and temp sensor connected it's much better. Lambda around 14.7 when cruising and stable 12.x when WOT.


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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:26 pm
Posts: 22
mrf582 wrote:
I just realized you're asking about MS40. This forum is for MS41...

What are the differences between the two?


Hmm no checksum what so ever. Haven't found the rev limiter yet. I assumed it was calculated the same like in MS41.1 but haven't found the right "place". Tried altering some constants without success. (Trying one at a time that would result in around 6500 rpm if using the MS41.1 way of calculating it.)

It little of a pain to reflash cause I have to remove the chip all the time. So I don't do so much progress, just want a good running tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:54 pm
Posts: 1773
You're running the old bosch dme


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 Post subject: Re: Cold Start Map - Any Info?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:26 pm
Posts: 22
busterhax wrote:
You're running the old bosch dme

It's clearly not a bosch dme. I read my org flash just now. The DME is the older MS40.1 and used in the older E36 320i and I guess 520i.
It's for m50b20 engines with vanos.


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 Post subject: Re: MS40
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
I split the posts above from the 'Cold Start' thread. I don't think we mind discussion about other ECUs but it would be nice to clearly state that you are not talking about MS41 at the top of the thread...

Anyway, carry on.

_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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