RomRaider

Hi, it's me again . I still haven't bought my replacement o2 sensors because the price is pretty hard to justify for me (especially since my car is a drift car that is only used for that purpose). You can get Bosch LSU with a basic controller for a price of the stock sensor.

Now I know that MS41 uses Titania type sensors. Does that mean that common narrowband simulation won't work? Is there any controller/way to simulate Titania sensor?

BTW is the disable O2 feedback option in MS41.2 "stable"?

Sounds like you don’t have an understanding of what the primary o2s do.

You can disable primaries. You just won’t have any fuel trims.


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Yes, basically I'm considering three scenarios.

* Shelling out 160 euros for new stock O2 sensors, which will enable fuel trims and allow me to monitor AFR through adaptations/fuel trims.
* Disabling the stock O2 sensors along with fuel trims and closed loop. Getting a standalone wideband O2 sensor to monitor the AFR with no connection to MS41.
* Ideally - getting a wideband O2 sensor which will give me both: direct AFR and communication with MS41 in binary/narrowband mode replacing the stock sensor and enabling fuel trims to work.

Currently without working O2 sensors, my knock adaptions on MS41.0 don't work either (all values in all tables are 0). That's why I've asked about MS41.2 option to turn off the O2 sensors.

You cannot monitor AFR with the stock o2 sensors

You can delete them, but again, you will be running on only tables.

There is no current way to use a wideband to replace a narrowband on ms41

You can't monitor the AFR in lambda, but you can see how much fuel they're pulling/adding and change your maps based on that. It's the technique that Pazi has described in his fuel tables tuning post.

So what's the best way to disable O2 sensors without loosing other functionality (mainly knock adaptations) of MS41 that is good to have in a motorsport car?

Anyway I'm pretty much sold on buying the correct O2 sensors now. I guess a wideband O2 will have to wait and be added later as a standalone unit, not as a replacement.

This won't work in WOT as the o2s are turned off.

But the WOT enrichment table will tell the AFR if base fuel tavle is tuned to 14.7 AFR

But for replacement lambda sensors, you can get NTK sensors from ebay pretty cheaply and those work really well.

For example: https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/NGK-96713-Lamb ... SwDk5UJVgK

(If that is right model. Hard to check from phone)

How about buy a AEM uego wideband gauge... Then use a serial to usb converter to bring it into RomRaider logger. Then I datalog the ecu like normal but with wideband added.

Should be under 150 euros total I think

Thanks for the tip Pazi. That seems to be an M54 sensor tho. I'll try searching for correct NTK sensor on ebay.



Sure, data logging wideband O2 sensor with RomRaider isn't a problem. Neither is finding one under 150 bucks. What I was specifically asking about is whether you can use the data from the wideband O2 sensor as an input for MS41. That doesn't seem possible sadly.

Here's an idea to keep knock feedback active.
Set the WOT thresholds at 10% (or whatever you prefer), zero out the WOT enrichment, then use the base fuel inj PW table to set the AF ratio that you want under specific RPM/load conditions. Use your wideband to tune the base inj PW and Vanos corrected inj PW tables. Essentially, you'd be tuning in full time open loop.

Has anyone verified that properly disabling front o2s disables knock detection? I feel like I’ve never experienced this in the past.

I at least have not been succesfull running without o2 sensors. Only with the ms41.0 -373 version that comes without o2's from factory. (0x04 as byte 6.)

Are they? Their information isn't used to correct AFR but I cannot see why those needed to shut off. You shall see from O2 signal if AFR is lean or rich from stoich from stock lamdbas as well, and thats pretty much what is needed to tune up.

What? How can you possibly target a specific afr at wot?

If your fuel table is ok you make target AFR with WOT enrichment, percent richer than stoich.

But that's not the point, lambda is active even at WOT and you can read it so you see from lambda signal if AFR is richer or leaner than stoich, and that's prettty much what you need to know if you don't use fuel to cool engine.