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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
328i-sport-rossi wrote:
mrf582 wrote:
If you want to get pops/bangs, you MUST have fuel on. Period. Whether you do it by keeping light throttle or by adjusting the Decel tables to do it completely off throttle, is up to you. I prefer the latter.

I can't believe this is so complicated for some people. You need two things for this effect. Fuel on, and Ignition Timing retarded. You just have to tune the Decel tables so Ignition Timing gets retarded quickly off-throttle, while keeping Fuel on. If you are still having trouble with this, post your logs and your 24KB file so we can help you.



I Totally get what you are saying and appreciate the explanation but i really cannot get the effect desired above 4k from WOT @ high rpm, its stupidly become an obsession and when i know tuners out there can do this it makes it all the more frustrating, I tried with fuel restore form 7k and still nothing, infact without fuel restore i atleast got a couple of cracks but with it nothing hence why i went down the route of adding some in base fuel table. I feel i have got it retarding quick enough when coming off WOT throttle ( 89.4 ) and hopefully you will see this hitting -23.6 degree pretty quickly. I have attached log here. I know this silly pop /crackle map is silly to alot but i now feel i have to work it out as its bugging me.

Good log. Clearly shows your Ignition Timing is retarding fast enough.

Now work on the Fuel ;) Notice, ECU reduces Injector Pulsewidth from 12.5ms to 1.8ms within 200ms.

Remember there are Fuel Enleanment tables defined as well. Stock maybe removing too much fuel too quickly. So reduce the amount of fuel that is removed. There are 4 Fuel Enleanment tables defined.

Stock MS41.2 ECU removes almost 50% fuel above 4000RPM and 500mg/stroke Load. Then the other 3 maps define how quickly/slowly this ramps/decays. Read the table descriptions in the latest version of RR to help you tune.

Or post your 24KB and I can modify it so you can understand what I'm talking about.

_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:58 am
Posts: 478
mrf582 wrote:
328i-sport-rossi wrote:
mrf582 wrote:
If you want to get pops/bangs, you MUST have fuel on. Period. Whether you do it by keeping light throttle or by adjusting the Decel tables to do it completely off throttle, is up to you. I prefer the latter.

I can't believe this is so complicated for some people. You need two things for this effect. Fuel on, and Ignition Timing retarded. You just have to tune the Decel tables so Ignition Timing gets retarded quickly off-throttle, while keeping Fuel on. If you are still having trouble with this, post your logs and your 24KB file so we can help you.



I Totally get what you are saying and appreciate the explanation but i really cannot get the effect desired above 4k from WOT @ high rpm, its stupidly become an obsession and when i know tuners out there can do this it makes it all the more frustrating, I tried with fuel restore form 7k and still nothing, infact without fuel restore i atleast got a couple of cracks but with it nothing hence why i went down the route of adding some in base fuel table. I feel i have got it retarding quick enough when coming off WOT throttle ( 89.4 ) and hopefully you will see this hitting -23.6 degree pretty quickly. I have attached log here. I know this silly pop /crackle map is silly to alot but i now feel i have to work it out as its bugging me.

Good log. Clearly shows your Ignition Timing is retarding fast enough.

Now work on the Fuel ;) Notice, ECU reduces Injector Pulsewidth from 12.5ms to 1.8ms within 200ms.

Remember there are Fuel Enleanment tables defined as well. Stock maybe removing too much fuel too quickly. So reduce the amount of fuel that is removed. There are 4 Fuel Enleanment tables defined.

Stock MS41.2 ECU removes almost 50% fuel above 4000RPM and 500mg/stroke Load. Then the other 3 maps define how quickly/slowly this ramps/decays. Read the table descriptions in the latest version of RR to help you tune.

Or post your 24KB and I can modify it so you can understand what I'm talking about.



Appreciate your reply.
Yes enleanment tables are somthing i should look into,Descriptions seem clear enough and yes i see the percentage removed is pretty full on as you say. if you have for example a stock 24kb with these tabels only modified as an example that would be more than appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
Just post your 24KB so I can see the scope of all your current Decel tables and how my suggestions will play into it.

_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Experienced

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:58 am
Posts: 478
mrf582 wrote:
Just post your 24KB so I can see the scope of all your current Decel tables and how my suggestions will play into it.


Here you go :)


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
Here I reduced Fuel Enleanment - Decreasing TPS.

Increased Fuel Cut - Hysteresis (both tables) by 4000RPM to keep fuel on at high rpm.

I also reverted the main Fuel and Timing table to that from ID60 since it matches your 2.8L engine.

Post logs from this and we can tune it further.


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_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:08 am 
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Experienced

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:58 am
Posts: 478
mrf582 wrote:
Here I reduced Fuel Enleanment - Decreasing TPS.

Increased Fuel Cut - Hysteresis (both tables) by 4000RPM to keep fuel on at high rpm.

I also reverted the main Fuel and Timing table to that from ID60 since it matches your 2.8L engine.

Post logs from this and we can tune it further.


This is excellent, Appreciated.
I will run it this weekend when the Snow clears and post feedback.


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:32 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:43 pm
Posts: 46
mrf582 wrote:
Increased Fuel Cut - Hysteresis (both tables) by 4000RPM to keep fuel on at high rpm.


This setting made my fuel stay on all the time when coasting (Iam on MS41.0). What were your results rossi?


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
manometer wrote:
mrf582 wrote:
Increased Fuel Cut - Hysteresis (both tables) by 4000RPM to keep fuel on at high rpm.


This setting made my fuel stay on all the time when coasting (Iam on MS41.0). What were your results rossi?

Yes, that was the purpose of making that modification...

_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:45 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:43 pm
Posts: 46
Ok thanks for the clarification. I am trying to create just a very short burble at high rpm. For me it would be annoying to have it on all the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:56 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
Ah ok. I would also prefer to have a short lived burble at high RPM. More of a 'snort' for a short time between shifts, lol.

Feel free to post your 24KB and I can make some modifications for it so you can test.

_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:06 am 
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Experienced

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:58 am
Posts: 478
manometer wrote:
mrf582 wrote:
Increased Fuel Cut - Hysteresis (both tables) by 4000RPM to keep fuel on at high rpm.


This setting made my fuel stay on all the time when coasting (Iam on MS41.0). What were your results rossi?


I am yet to run it as im waiting for snow to clear :(


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:43 pm
Posts: 46
This is the current bin, feel free to comment what you think should be altered.


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
manometer wrote:
This is the current bin, feel free to comment what you think should be altered.

I reduced "Fuel Cut - RPM Hysteresis (Minimum)" by ~4000RPM to 256RPM.
I kept "Fuel Cut - RPM Hysteresis (Maximum)" at its current value of 4928RPM.

A delta between the Maximum and Minimum 'Fuel Cut - RPM Hysteresis' tables should mean the ECU will use the 'Maximum' table at first and after the 'Fuel Cut - Hysteresis Delay Counter' has elapsed, it will switch to the 'Fuel Cut - RPM Hysteresis (Minimum)' table.

I also increased the 'Fuel Cut - Hysteresis Delay Counter' by ~200 cycles to 240 which is stock for MS41.2.

Please post datalogs of this version. If I'm correct, this should result in the injectors staying on for a brief amount of time after fast throttle lift before shutting off. Once we confirm the Fuel Injectors are behaving as intended, we can work on the Ignition Timing.


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_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:43 pm
Posts: 46
Thank you for your time!
Attached are the logs with the suggested settings. What do you think?

When coasting after normal driving the fuel cut was a bit erratic, sometimes it would not engage at all sometimes it would immeadiately. Maybe depending on how quickly the tps changed?


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:56 am 
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Senior Member

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
manometer wrote:
Thank you for your time!
Attached are the logs with the suggested settings. What do you think?

When coasting after normal driving the fuel cut was a bit erratic, sometimes it would not engage at all sometimes it would immeadiately. Maybe depending on how quickly the tps changed?

Yes, how quickly the TPS is decreased does affect which tables get used. This can be tuned as needed.

Can you describe which log file had the different erratic behaviors you mentioned? So I can understand the correlation between how the numbers look to what is felt when driving.

143838_WOT = describe behavior, etc.
144020_low_RPM = describe behavior, etc.
144051_shifting_2nd_to_3rd = describe behavior, etc.

_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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