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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:43 pm
Posts: 46
mrf582 wrote:
143838_WOT = describe behavior, etc.
144020_low_RPM = describe behavior, etc.
144051_shifting_2nd_to_3rd = describe behavior, etc.


I will have to do more logs with normal driving/slow/fast throttle...

The stated times below are from the falling edge (injector pw curve) till reaching ca. 0. (strangely 0 on the mpg gauge for me is around 1,1ms?!)

143838_WOT (high rpm) =474ms= fuel is pretty much immediately off (looking at the mpg gauge)
144020_low_RPM = 1285ms= little amount of fuel for 1-2s after WOT (not bad, but down low not really wanted)
144051_shifting_2nd_to_3rd = 400ms= nothing between gears (same as after WOT at high rpm)


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:58 am
Posts: 478
I havent had chance to log yet but took the car out briefly as i was itching to try the new settings.

I coppied the amendments from your last changes to Mano`s tune and same results.
Im getting nothing after WOT throttle by i am at light throttle at midrange rpm but very random and also engine braking with fuel being on for longer seems hit and miss, somtimes smooth and other times overly extended deceleration.
Unfortunatly not very pleasent to be honest, not predictable in terms of knowing what it is going to do in decel.


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
This is going to take several iterations to get it tuned the way you all want. Hope you're in for some testing...

I'm away from RR right now but the next thing I was going to do was multiply the 'Fast Detection - TPS Min Gradient' by 2 or more. This should result in the ECU never detecting 'Fast Decreasing TPS' and should always result in the fuel being on for at least some amount of time (maybe too long for your tastes so it will need to be tuned). When the ECU detects fast decreasing TPS, it can immediately shut fuel off.

_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:41 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:43 pm
Posts: 46
Attached are 2 logs. The first one shows fast and slower decreasing throttle (not wot). Here it looks like the sloweer decreased throttle had the better results, immediate fuel cut after ca. 1 second. The fast decreased throttle resulted in over 3 seconds till fuel cut. The general curve of the fuel being reduced is very similar but it doesnt always go completely to zero as shown in the logs.

The second log shows very immediate fuel cut (ca. 1 sec.) after wot as well as very late fuel cut when coasting after short throttle activation (This is the strangeness that is new and possibly what rossi felt as well).
what are your comments? any input is welcome!


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
One thing to keep in mind during this is that the ECU will cut fuel if RPM is above the Fuel Restore RPM once Ignition Timing is allowed to retard to the full amount specified by the Decel tables. So, for what manometer wants, you want to reduce Timing quickly to almost the full value but not let it go to the full amount.

Rossi, please don't try to use values from files I'm modding for manometer. He is going for a completely different type of decel noise than you. The approach for him will probably not work for you. The approach for you is way different since we want decel pops to happen all the time off-throttle and not just for a few seconds after throttle lift.

Also, I just noticed that both of you have a lot of decel tables modified from stock and the mods I made may not play well since you've gone so extreme on some of the values. So can you both please post your files with all the decel tables returned to stock for your vehicles and we will make small incremental changes and go from there.

_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:57 pm
Posts: 260
Location: Sri Lanka
I have tried applying the finding shared in this thread by mrf around page 7-8,
but i still couldn't make out an pop/bang in deceleration,
once when my intake cam was accidentally advanced by 2 degrees and using ms41.0 i had one nice bang (like in turbo car deceleration bangs)
could'nt make it after similar as the cam timing adjustment to correct stock location and ms41.2 upgrade
deceleration rev-hang is extremely good for my liking after the ms41.2 conversion
what im trying to create is in deceleration one loud pop,
from log analysis i can see in deceleration my ignition Angle does retard upto 0 degrees (sometime -2.5)


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:28 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:58 am
Posts: 478
mrf582 wrote:
One thing to keep in mind during this is that the ECU will cut fuel if RPM is above the Fuel Restore RPM once Ignition Timing is allowed to retard to the full amount specified by the Decel tables. So, for what manometer wants, you want to reduce Timing quickly to almost the full value but not let it go to the full amount.

Rossi, please don't try to use values from files I'm modding for manometer. He is going for a completely different type of decel noise than you. The approach for him will probably not work for you. The approach for you is way different since we want decel pops to happen all the time off-throttle and not just for a few seconds after throttle lift.

Also, I just noticed that both of you have a lot of decel tables modified from stock and the mods I made may not play well since you've gone so extreme on some of the values. So can you both please post your files with all the decel tables returned to stock for your vehicles and we will make small incremental changes and go from there.


I will post up my file later tonight with Decel Table back to stock. I am happy to go with the flow and run with decel map adjusted to create pops and burble all the time if it means this then allows us to work backwards to amend tables to get exactly what the individual is trying to achieve.
If we can create pops and burble from WOT @ High RPM consistently then that sounds good to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:58 am
Posts: 478
This is my file with decel tables back to stock (I think )


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
Give the attached file a try. I converted all Deceleration tables to stock MS41.2 and then edited a few. This file is intended to have decel pops all the time.

Please post logs from this so we can revise as needed.


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_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:28 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:58 am
Posts: 478
mrf582 wrote:
Give the attached file a try. I converted all Deceleration tables to stock MS41.2 and then edited a few. This file is intended to have decel pops all the time.

Please post logs from this so we can revise as needed.



Excellent, i am taking the car out this week finally so will log as much as possible and report back.


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:58 am
Posts: 478
Just ran the tune on a quick drive.
I amended my base timing and fuel and took out the retard and the additional fueling i was using in the base fuel and timing to create my pops and bangs on the touch of the throttle.
Anyway....... with the amended decel tables i can report i got absolutly nothing atall in the way of pops or burple, Totally silent, smoothish decel but i would say less burble than even stock, totally zero.
I have added the log here, a few WOT moments, all i could get in this weather.


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 2661
Location: RIP
Yeah, logs look like fuel is going to minimum values too quickly. Try v02 and post datalogs. Thanks.


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_________________
MS41 Project Leader & Co-Developer (2012 - 2023)
MS41.3 https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/custom-code---ms41-3
MS41 ECU Portal https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/ms41-ecu-portal


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 11:44 am
Posts: 1
pazi88 wrote:
There has been lot of discussion about how to get rid of the rev hang which is present at least in ms41.0. I tried lot of things like using the ms41.2 deceleration maps but I wasn't happy with the result. It was better but still the revs didn't drop as fast I would want. I also played with the Fast decreasing TPS -detection maps, but with those I couldn't get the result I wanted, and in most cases it just made the car undriveable. Like there would have been kangaroo gas in tank :D

But eventually I found easy way to get totally rid of the rev hang without negative effects:
- First raise the ignition Retard - Decreasing TPS - step size so that the minimum values are 10.
- Lower the Ignition retard decreasing TPS (closed) maps by 10.
- Lower the Ignition retard decreasing TPS maps by 15.

Then flash the new SW and go for test drive. There shouldn't be any rev hang at all. Here is ms41 file you could use to copy the maps: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2EFG ... 1JrTjFhQUk

Then in addition to that if you want lot of exhaust popping when deceleration:
- Put the Fuel restore - RPM maps above your RPM limiter. So that it wont cut fuel when you are decelerating. (you need fuel for those pops).
- Lower the Ignition retard decreasing TPS -maps by another 10 degrees compared to the previous setup.

This will get your deceleration sound like this (I have almost stock exhaust so it's not very loud):
https://pazi88.kuvat.fi/kuvat/random+pa ... I_9618.MOV

(I will add file later)

Then if you want it more aggressive you could increase the step size and lower the Ignition retard decreasing TPS -maps even more. While decelerating you would want about negative 20 degrees of advance for loud pops so use logging to found how much you will need to lower the Ignition retard decreasing TPS -maps. but 20 to 25 lower than stock will give the same effect as in that video. I didn't want to test more because THIS WILL DESTROY YOUR CAT. And if you don't have CAT and want flames you could add some unnecessary fuel to base fuel map to the lowest load column above 1600 RPM.



Just did what Pazi explained in the quoted post on my 328i, and it works perfect. But one thing bothers me does anybody know if the popping effect causes any damage to the engine when it is running on LPG?


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:08 am
Posts: 3
hi all

Already played a lot with deceleration tables, popcorn exhaust etc..
But now I would like to achieve result with 1 (or maybe two/three with delay between) big loud pop on deceleration
Something like in videos below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_hB13eTaPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkhlxvRUffU

Can anyone help with the idea of how is it happening?
Does it enable fuel only in certain rpm's (let's say in 3500-4500, that's why it doesn't pop below 3500 and above 4500)?

I don't like setting Fuel restore RPM above limiter because exhaust starts popping all the time which is getting annoying very fast.
Playing with Fuel cut hysteresis tables , I achieved few seconds of popping, but after letting of throttle I need to touch accelerator pedal once again to get pops. That's why I can't get if these tables can help me to achieve that result.

Could it be that some other maps are used which are not defined in RR?


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 Post subject: Re: Deceleration
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 8:14 am
Posts: 1042
Location: Oulu, Finland (English/Finnish)
It seems that there is again many people trying to get the decel pops working at higher RPM and I have a hunch about what is going on.

Because today I was tuning the anti lag on my ms3 powered m52 turbo and it turned out that at low rpm (below 3500 ish) it worked fine. But at higher rpm it didn't work. And was even dead silent. Sounds familiar eh?

Well it turns out that the ICV needs to be almost fully open to get the exhaust popping at high RPM. At least 70% duty is needed. So I'm guessing we need to find way to open the ICV while decelrating.

I have no idea how. But maybe mrf582 has an idea.


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