MAF transfer curves

dx4picco · **Posted:** Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:38 pm

not that hard even to find a genuine one.
Nissan is renault too
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Capteur-d%C3%A9 ... 2749.l2649

Janis · **Joined:** Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:37 pm **Posts:** 12

Still not even close as common as vag tdi engines. At least that is the situation here in North-Eastern Europe.

ba114 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:36 am **Posts:** 980

Janis wrote:

Thanks for the file.
Few issues i found. Cant edit stock tube size in "256 Point Scalar Conversion" sheet.
Also doesnt calculate values more than 12xx.

Nissan MAFs are not very common in Europe. So as people here already know Audi RS4 maf is used for MS42/43.
I did some research and according to what i found the maf element is the same as the one used on VAG 2.5TDI (AFB,AKN) engines (we have a lot of these in Europe).
I will check if this is true and test it on my car.

The conversion sheet isn't really needed anymore unless you have a MAF that has a 256 scalar that you want to calculate a resistor mod for.
If thats the case, it doesn't matter that you can't set the stock tube size.

Alternatively add the 256 point table to the "known 256 scalars" tab and then update the pivot table in the "256 point scalar modifier" tab.

There are no issues calculating more than 12xx.

Janis · **Joined:** Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:37 pm **Posts:** 12

ba114 wrote:

The conversion sheet isn't really needed anymore unless you have a MAF that has a 256 scalar that you want to calculate a resistor mod for.
If thats the case, it doesn't matter that you can't set the stock tube size.

i have a 256 scalar for the maf in 3.5inch tube, but i need to recalculate it for 3inch tube.

ba114 wrote:

Alternatively add the 256 point table to the "known 256 scalars" tab and then update the pivot table in the "256 point scalar modifier" tab.

Its a protected file i cant do that.

ba114 wrote:

There are no issues calculating more than 12xx.

In other sheets there are no issues, just in that one.

gadziuWLKP · **Posted:** Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:24 am

Janis wrote:

Thanks for the file.
Few issues i found. Cant edit stock tube size in "256 Point Scalar Conversion" sheet.
Also doesnt calculate values more than 12xx.

Nissan MAFs are not very common in Europe. So as people here already know Audi RS4 maf is used for MS42/43.
I did some research and according to what i found the maf element is the same as the one used on VAG 2.5TDI (AFB,AKN) engines (we have a lot of these in Europe).
I will check if this is true and test it on my car.

Use MAF SCALING V8 file again, everything works for me. You can convert as you like. Do not use a resistor larger than 2.2KOhm. Divide the load so as not to exceed 1024 in the last load field - European Ori Ecu MS41.0 cannot calculate larger values. Use only Microsoft Excel for changes. I encountered problems using Open Ofiice. Use Nissan MAF.

indtm3 · **Joined:** Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:02 am **Posts:** 2

The only place I have been able to find a table for the 803 MAF is in this older thread:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopi ... 42&t=11773

Have these values ever been verified? Is there a more obvious source that I missed? Just curious why it is not included in the spreadsheet in the MAF Transfer Curves thread, since this is a popular HFM.

There is a 99.87% correlation with the 540i values between the two sheets (outside the low blank voltages) I am assuming there is a high chance the 803 values posted are good as well. If the values are correct, hopefully this helps someone else out.

busterhax · **Joined:** Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:54 pm **Posts:** 1773

803 table came from a Porsche bin. It reads a good amount higher than the 540.

indtm3 · **Joined:** Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:02 am **Posts:** 2

Thanks, I did get that part. Hence it's prevalence with medium power FI applications.

Just wondering if it was ever verified or if there was a source that could be used to do so.
And if we should add it to the MAF Transfer Curve thread: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=12453

Sorry, I meant to post as a reply in that thread but accidentally made a new topic.

sorek · **Posted:** Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:47 pm

I found big difference in prices some are for above £100+ some are cheaper like this one mentions its oem

None of them got any labels or companies that makes them so will this be ok?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303456907569

Also I wonder how to get it into stock maf. Will glue be enough ot you got some good ideas or should I use some nissan case (if there is one around 2.76"

Also for connectors 22680-7S000 pinout its that right?

Northern · **Posted:** Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:26 pm

Murray, could you add the 803 MAF scalar from the link a few posts up?

JSimpkin · **Joined:** Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:10 pm **Posts:** 9

ba114 wrote:

This thread has been created to discover and document MAF transfer curves for the purposes of:
- Extending the range of a MAF through adding a resistor
- Extending the range of a MAF through increasing the tube size
- Retrofitting aftermarket and MAFs from other cars with known scalars

The current best choice for forced induction is the Nissan 22680-7S000 MAF from a 350z.
I pulled apart a stock 350z rom to get the 64 point scalar and converted it to a 256 point table.
This Hitachi MAF costs roughly $20 and i have tested and confirmed functionality with great results.

I have also included some PMAS HPX MAF scalars, along with a Ford 3" slot style MAF, which is pretty similar to the 350z Hitachi MAF.

Update 28/04/2019:
Attached updated v8 of the scalar spreadsheet.
- 3 new hitachi 22680-7s000 scalars added based on testing in a e46 330i. Revision 2 and 3 have got pretty consistent fuel trims within +/- 5% for all my testing upto around 2.7v. This is based on stock fuel tables scaled for use with 60lb bosch ev14 injectors. If anyone still has a stock setup and cares to test, please do.

Update 15/04/2019:
Attached updated v7 of the scalar spreadsheet.
- Added alternative scalar for hitachi MAF for idle testing.

Update 11/02/2018:
Attached updated v6 of the scalar spreadsheet.
- Fixed re-scaling of tables based on tube size changes

Update 10/02/2018:
Attached updated v5 of the scalar spreadsheet.
- General clean up
- Refined the scalar for Nissan 22680-7S000 MAF
- Added divisor function to 256 Point Scalar Modifier sheet for when you need to reduce the MAF kg/hr due to exceeding DME limits
- Added Alpina 3.5" MAF scalar (Pretty similar to stock MAF in 3.5" tube)
- Added RR 16x16 to 1x256 MAF table converter

Okay. I’ve just read through all 12 pages. I’m running a stock engine with 650cc injectors (currently not fitted) and a cheap GT35. So I see ba114 is running 60ib injectors so very close size for mine I believe. Correct me if I’m wrong. But if I copy the table from revision 2/3 into my maf table and multiply my fuel table by 240/650=0.369 I should be in the rough ball park. Would you do anything with timing? I’ve had the car running on low boost at 5psi on completely stock injectors, maf, everything untouched and it seems okay. I haven’t topped the maf out yet. But I believe I’m very very close. Also running ms41.0 if that makes any difference. Also can’t connect to RR logger but can flash via MS41 quickflash

Jordan

ET89 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:34 am

JSimpkin wrote:

ba114 wrote:

This thread has been created to discover and document MAF transfer curves for the purposes of:
- Extending the range of a MAF through adding a resistor
- Extending the range of a MAF through increasing the tube size
- Retrofitting aftermarket and MAFs from other cars with known scalars

The current best choice for forced induction is the Nissan 22680-7S000 MAF from a 350z.
I pulled apart a stock 350z rom to get the 64 point scalar and converted it to a 256 point table.
This Hitachi MAF costs roughly $20 and i have tested and confirmed functionality with great results.

I have also included some PMAS HPX MAF scalars, along with a Ford 3" slot style MAF, which is pretty similar to the 350z Hitachi MAF.

Update 28/04/2019:
Attached updated v8 of the scalar spreadsheet.
- 3 new hitachi 22680-7s000 scalars added based on testing in a e46 330i. Revision 2 and 3 have got pretty consistent fuel trims within +/- 5% for all my testing upto around 2.7v. This is based on stock fuel tables scaled for use with 60lb bosch ev14 injectors. If anyone still has a stock setup and cares to test, please do.

Update 15/04/2019:
Attached updated v7 of the scalar spreadsheet.
- Added alternative scalar for hitachi MAF for idle testing.

Update 11/02/2018:
Attached updated v6 of the scalar spreadsheet.
- Fixed re-scaling of tables based on tube size changes

Update 10/02/2018:
Attached updated v5 of the scalar spreadsheet.
- General clean up
- Refined the scalar for Nissan 22680-7S000 MAF
- Added divisor function to 256 Point Scalar Modifier sheet for when you need to reduce the MAF kg/hr due to exceeding DME limits
- Added Alpina 3.5" MAF scalar (Pretty similar to stock MAF in 3.5" tube)
- Added RR 16x16 to 1x256 MAF table converter

Okay. I’ve just read through all 12 pages. I’m running a stock engine with 650cc injectors (currently not fitted) and a cheap GT35. So I see ba114 is running 60ib injectors so very close size for mine I believe. Correct me if I’m wrong. But if I copy the table from revision 2/3 into my maf table and multiply my fuel table by 240/650=0.369 I should be in the rough ball park. Would you do anything with timing? I’ve had the car running on low boost at 5psi on completely stock injectors, maf, everything untouched and it seems okay. I haven’t topped the maf out yet. But I believe I’m very very close. Also running ms41.0 if that makes any difference. Also can’t connect to RR logger but can flash via MS41 quickflash

Jordan

you need a lot more than that. I do not know what you allready did. multiplying by 0.369 is only a start, but you need to extent your fuel and timing tables and you definitly should do
something about your timing. find out why you can't log first because you can't tune without logging.

mrf582 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:52 pm

JSimpkin wrote:

Okay. I’ve just read through all 12 pages. I’m running a stock engine with 650cc injectors (currently not fitted) and a cheap GT35. So I see ba114 is running 60ib injectors so very close size for mine I believe. Correct me if I’m wrong. But if I copy the table from revision 2/3 into my maf table and multiply my fuel table by 240/650=0.369 I should be in the rough ball park. Would you do anything with timing? I’ve had the car running on low boost at 5psi on completely stock injectors, maf, everything untouched and it seems okay. I haven’t topped the maf out yet. But I believe I’m very very close. Also running ms41.0 if that makes any difference. Also can’t connect to RR logger but can flash via MS41 quickflash

Jordan

Assuming (1024kg/hr = 350BHP), 725kg/hr (5V) works out to be about 250BHP. A turbo @5psig on your 2.8L engine at 100% compressor efficiency should net 270BHP. I guess that GT35 isn't exactly in its most efficient contour at 5psi at that flow. So, yeah, your experiences check out with the theoretical math.

You need an ECU logger. Do not proceed further until then.

ba114 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:36 am **Posts:** 980

Northern wrote:

Murray, could you add the 803 MAF scalar from the link a few posts up?

Added in v9.
Original post updated.

highline518 · **Joined:** Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:01 pm **Posts:** 16

I've tried to use a FORD slot maf (05+)

black and brown grounds on engine harness bridged as well as ground and maf return pins on maf bridged with the black and brown on engine harness.

like the other guy a couple pages back, seeing 400-500 load at idle.

No resistor being used as the additional scaling isn't needed, must it be used anyway even with lower power application ? However I tried using a 10k resistor as thats what i had on hand, same issue 400-500 load.

full and partial bins modified with extended maf mode and only editing the 2048 tables using the v9 scaler sheet just released to scale maf for 2.5 inch tubing.

sometimes on key off , live data shows engine load at a static position.

From left to right looking at maf connector on engine harness

pin 1 - 12V - connected to red 12v source on engine harness
pin 2 - GRND - connected to black and brown from engine harness
pin 3 - MAF Return (signal ground i assume) - connected to black and brown from engine harness
pin 4 - MAF Signal - connected to yellow on engine harness
pin 5 - IAT not used
pin 6 - IAT not used

from what I can tell , maf signal sees .22 volts with engine off key on. little high.

Maybe it just needs a 2.2k resistor but I would think it should be possible to run as is without any resistor. The spreadsheet says these values are based on a 2.2k, but i leave the resistor value to 0, that should ulimately mean 0? or 0 on top of 2.2k . so if the value is changed to 2.2, then the total resistance calculated would be 4.4 ?

EDIT
cut the values down by a half and now it seems reasonable that the resistor will be needed. car runs fine with some playing there but of course that leaves no headroom.

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