08 STi timing not adding up

ev8siv3 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:14 pm **Posts:** 768

I have the following tables setup and my timing lines up exactly as requested. I also am running the Alternate Advance Mode.

Airboy · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:12 pm

ev8siv3 wrote:

I have the following tables setup and my timing lines up exactly as requested. I also am running the Alternate Advance Mode.

I think the key difference is the "Alternate Advance Mode" that you are using.

merchgod · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:38 am **Posts:** 5336

the alternate advance mode would only prevent the additive advance from coming into play, as far as timing is concerned.

Bullwinkle1983 · **Joined:** Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:59 pm **Posts:** 197

Hrm, and it also looks like he zeroed the alternate advance A by zeroing the % tables at higher load. I'll be doing one of these this weekend and will have time to do some research into this. Airboy, anything you'd like me to look at specifically?

ev8siv3 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:14 pm **Posts:** 768

Bullwinkle1983 wrote:

Hrm, and it also looks like he zeroed the alternate advance A by zeroing the % tables at higher load. I'll be doing one of these this weekend and will have time to do some research into this. Airboy, anything you'd like me to look at specifically?

The timing comp per cyl was nuked for A,B,C,D. I just didn't put them all in the pic since they were all zeroed. Every so often I get some FBKC on spool in 4th/5th/6th but its random and I think it has to do with tip-in with the big injectors and E85. The alternate advance A was set up like the WRX since it made more sense to me and works great.

Bullwinkle1983 · **Joined:** Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:59 pm **Posts:** 197

ev8siv3 wrote:

Bullwinkle1983 wrote:

Hrm, and it also looks like he zeroed the alternate advance A by zeroing the % tables at higher load. I'll be doing one of these this weekend and will have time to do some research into this. Airboy, anything you'd like me to look at specifically?

The timing comp per cyl was nuked for A,B,C,D. I just didn't put them all in the pic since they were all zeroed. Every so often I get some FBKC on spool in 4th/5th/6th but its random and I think it has to do with tip-in with the big injectors and E85. The alternate advance A was set up like the WRX since it made more sense to me and works great.

So, you also zeroed the per cylinder timing comp (looks like only B and D have non-zero values)? Any particular reason why you did that for the 08 STI specifically?

I agree that essentially "zeroing" the advance A makes more sense from an "easy tuning" perspective.

ev8siv3 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:14 pm **Posts:** 768

Bullwinkle1983 wrote:

ev8siv3 wrote:

Bullwinkle1983 wrote:

Hrm, and it also looks like he zeroed the alternate advance A by zeroing the % tables at higher load. I'll be doing one of these this weekend and will have time to do some research into this. Airboy, anything you'd like me to look at specifically?

The timing comp per cyl was nuked for A,B,C,D. I just didn't put them all in the pic since they were all zeroed. Every so often I get some FBKC on spool in 4th/5th/6th but its random and I think it has to do with tip-in with the big injectors and E85. The alternate advance A was set up like the WRX since it made more sense to me and works great.

So, you also zeroed the per cylinder timing comp (looks like only B and D have non-zero values)? Any particular reason why you did that for the 08 STI specifically?

I agree that essentially "zeroing" the advance A makes more sense from an "easy tuning" perspective.

I wanted everything to line up as I specified. Since I'm running larger injectors and E85 I also zeroed the per cyl fuel compensations. Just keeps everything smooth and consistent.

Airboy · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:59 pm

Bullwinkle1983 wrote:

Hrm, and it also looks like he zeroed the alternate advance A by zeroing the % tables at higher load. I'll be doing one of these this weekend and will have time to do some research into this. Airboy, anything you'd like me to look at specifically?

If you are referring to the Timing Compensation A Activation table, "0" means it is applied at full. -100% means it is not applied.

Could you collect some logs with these setups?
1) stock map

2) Timing Comp B (IAT) zeroed

3) Timing Comp A (IAT) Activation setup like ev8siv3 has in his

merchgod · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:38 am **Posts:** 5336

Airboy wrote:

If you are referring to the Timing Compensation A Activation table, "0" means it is applied at full. -100% means it is not applied.

Could you collect some logs with these setups?
1) stock map

2) Timing Comp B (IAT) zeroed

3) Timing Comp A (IAT) Activation setup like ev8siv3 has in his

Doing a quick check of the last log you posted for 3rd gear, it appears that the IAT B comp is coming into play between about 2400-4600 RPM with the IAT A comp, when considering the activation table, making up the rest of the difference (and applied to the entire run except where activation is -100%).

Airboy · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:17 pm

merchgod wrote:

Airboy wrote:

If you are referring to the Timing Compensation A Activation table, "0" means it is applied at full. -100% means it is not applied.

Could you collect some logs with these setups?
1) stock map

2) Timing Comp B (IAT) zeroed

3) Timing Comp A (IAT) Activation setup like ev8siv3 has in his

Doing a quick check of the last log you posted for 3rd gear, it appears that the IAT B comp is coming into play between about 2400-4600 RPM with the IAT A comp, when considering the activation table, making up the rest of the difference (and applied to the entire run except where activation is -100%).

Perhaps I missed something but there is still an offset above ~4500rpm, even after applying IAT Comp A. Is the IAT Comp B table "tied" to another table similar to the IAT Comp A Activation?

Bullwinkle1983 · **Joined:** Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:59 pm **Posts:** 197

Airboy wrote:

Bullwinkle1983 wrote:

Hrm, and it also looks like he zeroed the alternate advance A by zeroing the % tables at higher load. I'll be doing one of these this weekend and will have time to do some research into this. Airboy, anything you'd like me to look at specifically?

If you are referring to the Timing Compensation A Activation table, "0" means it is applied at full. -100% means it is not applied.

Could you collect some logs with these setups?
1) stock map

2) Timing Comp B (IAT) zeroed

3) Timing Comp A (IAT) Activation setup like ev8siv3 has in his

Yeah, I reread the table, and I must've misread when I posted above (thinking it was a multiplier, not a compensation). Evasive's setup looks to aim to behave like previous WRX/STIs. I'll post up some logs when I have them.

merchgod · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:38 am **Posts:** 5336

Airboy wrote:

Perhaps I missed something but there is still an offset above ~4500rpm, even after applying IAT Comp A. Is the IAT Comp B table "tied" to another table similar to the IAT Comp A Activation?

No, there's not.

There's an offset of less than a degree above that RPM which would be explained by the IAT A table.

Airboy · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:54 pm

merchgod wrote:

Airboy wrote:

Perhaps I missed something but there is still an offset above ~4500rpm, even after applying IAT Comp A. Is the IAT Comp B table "tied" to another table similar to the IAT Comp A Activation?

No, there's not.

There's an offset of less than a degree above that RPM which would be explained by the IAT A table.

IAT Comp A

Code:

-40   -22   -4   14   32   50   68   86   104   122   140   158   176   194   212   230
5.98   5.98   5.98   5.98   3.87   2.11   1.05   0   -1.05   -2.11   -4.92   -4.92   -5.98   -5.98   -5.98   -5.98

Here is the trimmed version of the log file:

Code:

Time   RPM   Load   Total Timing   Base   Adv   IAT
9053   5113   2.59   17   13.19   3.89   46
9277   5198   2.61   16.5   12.96   3.87   46
9502   5368   2.61   17   13.61   3.72   46
9725   5493   2.58   17.5   14.3   3.50   46
9950   5537   2.53   18   15.03   3.25   46
10173   5683   2.48   19   16.08   3.22   46
10398   5762   2.47   20   17.05   3.24   46
10622   5868   2.39   21   17.9   3.24   46
10846   5977   2.38   21.5   18.63   3.20   46

If I add Base and Adv at, say, 5537rpm, I get 15.03+3.25=18.28*. The IAT compensation at 46F is 1.25*, accounting for the -50% activation table. That would add up to 19.5*. The logged Total Timing is only 18*

merchgod · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:38 am **Posts:** 5336

Airboy wrote:

If I add Base and Adv at, say, 5537rpm, I get 15.03+3.25=18.28*. The IAT compensation at 46F is 1.25*, accounting for the -50% activation table. That would add up to 19.5*. The logged Total Timing is only 18*

Ok, I agree that is off too much to be accounted for by the lack of precision of total timing or sampling differences.

The easiest way to determine if some unknown compensation is coming into play is by logging each unknown compensation. So, if you have access to the car again, let me know. There is one interesting compensation that is based on gear, but I have not played with it enough to see how it works.

Airboy · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:15 pm

merchgod wrote:

Airboy wrote:

If I add Base and Adv at, say, 5537rpm, I get 15.03+3.25=18.28*. The IAT compensation at 46F is 1.25*, accounting for the -50% activation table. That would add up to 19.5*. The logged Total Timing is only 18*

Ok, I agree that is off too much to be accounted for by the lack of precision of total timing or sampling differences.

The easiest way to determine if some unknown compensation is coming into play is by logging each unknown compensation. So, if you have access to the car again, let me know. There is one interesting compensation that is based on gear, but I have not played with it enough to see how it works.

Maybe contact Bullwinkle since it sounds like he'll be logging an 08STi this weekend.

RomRaider

08 STi timing not adding up

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